Tuesday, April 11, 2006

The Lamb Slain from the Foundation of the World

Recorded Monday April 10, 2006, in downtown Fredericton, this audio file is an excellent sample of what my ministry on the streets is like, featuring:

-Preaching
-Answering a complaint
-Defending the faith
-Encouraging a desperate individual

Almost everytime I go out on the street to I will encounter situations similar to what you will hear on this audio, making this file a valuable download for those interested in what street preaching is all about. You will also hear how the preaching intertwines with engaging people one-on-one and vice versa.

Quotes from that afternoon:

Eli - You know Adam and Eve?
Guy - I have a brother named Adam...


Girl - I think there were several prophets...
Eli - There were... and we killed them all.
Girl - I think there are still prophets.
Eli - There are, I am one right now.

Guy - The whole point to God's religion is that it's not His. (???)

Guy - We are going to need another coffee if we are going to continue this.

Guy - I’m in the mood today to yell at you!

Girl - You must get all sorts.

Eli - The truth will set you free.
Man - It'll also cost you a lot of money.
Eli - The truth doesn't cost you anything except your life.

Man - There’s no such thing as sin.
Eli - You're saying what Hitler did was okay?
Man - Yeah.

Eli - Can I ask you a question... Does two plus two equal five?
Man - Probably in some cultures it might.

Man - You’re 20 years old? By the time you are 26 that Bible will have changed.
Eli - This Bible is the 1611 Authorized Version.


This clip is 20 minutes in length, just a portion of the afternoon spent at the King and York intersection. The message focuses on God's timeless plan to save His creation through the shed blood of His Son, Jesus Christ, now revealed to us in these last days. May God bless you as you listen. (Caution: This clip contains some profanity) Download below:

Eli Brayley - The Lamb Slain from the Foundation of the World (Open Air)
(Click the link above, then click Download, Save, then rename and place the file)

32 comments:

Eli said...

I'm not entirely sure, but I believe that the man I spoke to at the end of the clip was thinking about killing himself later that day... he showed me an angel engraved on a coin that a lady gave him earlier, and I said, "God is telling you something." He then said, "To hang on." He left encouraged, much different then when he approached me. May God save him and bless him. Please pray for him, his name is Joe.

jedd said...

Eli,

What do you mean when you say that you are a "prophet"?

jedd

Eli said...

Do you not believe in prophets anymore?

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: till we all come in the unity of faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ." - Ephesians 4:11-13

jedd said...

Eli,

No I don't. I'm a staunch dispensationalist.

But obviously you aren't. How is it that you have come to decide that you are a prophet? Just curious.

jedd

Adam Wright said...

Eli,
you should define what you mean by prophet.

Logic said...

This might be a useful definition of prophecy:

To hear from God and speak out what you have heard.

-Logic

jedd said...

I should clarify what I said about being a "staunch dispensationalist." I mean that I do not believe that prophecies, tongues, etc. occur today to the same degree that they did back in the days of the early church. I do not deny that these things do happen to some extent, but I don't think that people have these abilities "on tap" today.

I hope that clears things up.

jedd

Logic said...

Jedd,

Thanks for clearing up the dispensational remark... I was starting to get a bit concerned!

I would agree that the gifts of the Spirit DO not occur as frequently today. However, I do not see any biblical argument to suggest that this OUGHT to be the case.

You are absolutely correct in your observation, but I think this points to an inadequacy in the church rather than to how things should actually be in the church. It seems to me that there is no reason to think that things now should be any different from the early church, at least with regard to what God has given to us. Thus, if the early church had these gifts 'on tap', I see no reason to think the current church should not have these gifts 'on tap'. Seems logical to me! (hope my comment doesn't get deleted for using logic to try and argue beyond what scripture says)

-Logic

ricky earle said...

I am hoping to listen to this audio today brother Eli, looking forward to it.

God bless

jedd said...

Eli,

I listened to the audio clip twice and I did not catch the conversation with you and the girl about prophets. Did I just miss it, or is it really not there? If it is there, at what point (roughly) does it occur? Thank you.


Logic,

Yeah, you certainly could be right. I would only add that I don't see why the church necessarily needs to have them either.


jedd

Adam Wright said...

I, too, can't see why the church necessarily needs the gifts in the form they took in the early years of the church. I say that in the complete context of a North American church. Also, I mean gifts of tongues (those other than prayer languages). Concerning prophesy, I dissagree that Eli could be sanctioned by God himself in a prophetic office. Logic, I agree with your definition of prophesy. It certainly does apply to our communal definition of prophets today. As believers indwelled with the Holy Spirit, we have the ability to hear from God and speak messages into people's lives that are relevant and that God uses to change hearts. I think maybe (I could be wrong) what Jedd is saying is that a prophet, as defined by the OT, does not exist today. I've met a few people fanatical in their beliefs convince themselves that they are somehow set apart for some amazing feat that God has revealed. While I do believe that God aids us in our ventures and efforts as the body of Christ, I do think that some people place themself in the "hero" role - mere fantasy and ego satisfaction. This, of course, can lead to the destruction of many - something I don't think any of us would like to witness.

Adam Wright said...

Logic,

I would certainly remove you from this website after reading today's post... WAYYYYY to logical. hahaha.

Keep up the good work, brother.

Luke said...

Being a prophet today tends to get the same results of the Biblical prophets...persecution. However, I do believe and suspect that Eli would agree, that his act of prophecy is somewhat different than the Biblical prophets. That is, instead of predicting the date and time of a city's destruction or the coming of our Lord through direct communication with the Lord Himself, the Lord has gifted Eli to use the Word to warn the people of Fredericton of what is to come.

That is just my 2 cents worth.
Luke

Ricky said...

Amen to the preaching brother Eli, keep preaching! We are lifthing you up in prayer here in Eastern Ontario. It's great to hear the Word being preached boldly, and it's great to hear the discussions that always arise from the Word being preached.

Bless the LORD,
Ricky

Paul West said...

Great preaching, brother.

jane said...

Eli, what makes you think the man was contemplating suicide? It sounds to me like you are just patting yourself on the back, and trying to make your words sound much more important than they were. Please, becuase I am curious, tell me what led you to think he was contemplating suicide?

I have read many of your posts, and listened to your sermons, and I have to say that you have a huge tendency to jump to conclusions far too quickly. Like the person you believed was possessed by demons, the street thugs who meant you harm, this man who was going to kill himself. If you want to take on the responsibility of preaching what you believe God is saying -- you need to also take on the responsibility of reporting things accurately, and not just making assumptions so quickly.

Also, you need to learn humility.

I know you will refute practically everything I have said, however the point is that an outsider who does not know you, immediately perceives that you need humility. Now, I have no agenda, and nothing to gain -- so ask yourself why else would I say it, unless it is what is coming across? Humility. Learn it.

Eli said...

Okay wow, this was a very revealing thread. I am shocked and disturbed at the naivity here and I say this in love but also in frustration.

Wow. First of all, don't accuse me of jumping to conclusion, look at who jumped to conclusions! Phew.

When I speak of being a prophet I am thinking directly of the Parable of the Tenants, where God sent messengers to warn the tenants but they killed them all. This is true in the old testament and in the new... show me where this story has changed. This is what I was speaking of and a minute of pondering this would have clarified it in your minds, yet you jump to the head of the class and shout "Eli is calling himself Elijah!" or something. Get real. Thank you Luke, thanks Logic.

Now Jedd, you said you are a "staunch dispensationalist" and do not believe that the Early Church's power is needed or available today (this is something like what you said but you can clarify)... it's one thing to say this. Show us from Scripture. You cannot. Show us from life. You cannot.

I will say this. In North America we are in a such a terrible state of spirituality and faith and Christianity that we are a dead Laodicean church that is about to be snuffed out. We must repent and pray and seek revival or we will perish. If you would just pick up a book or something and read about China or other countries that ARE experiencing revival it reads exactly like the early church.

This has NOTHING to do with dispensation. It has to do with faith and obedience to God's Word and God's people walking in truth and power, which we are not here in North America. The reason we are not is because we love television, beer, and fun and games more than seeing souls won, praying and fellowshipping with Jesus.

And finally, Jane,

Thanks for the harsh rebuke... I'm not going to even begin to argue.

Eli said...

This audio is only a short clip of the whole afternoon. The girl came later. Not all the quotes are on the file.

jedd said...

Hi Eli,

First of all, thank you for the clarification about the audio file.

Thank you also for your clarification as to what you mean when you call yourself a prophet. However, I don't see one post that jumps to a conclusion about your prophet claim. Adam and I merely asked you what you meant when you said that you are a prophet (and if that makes me naive, then, well, I apologize). In fact, the only posts that come anywhere close to jumping to conclusions are those of Logic and Luke, yet you seem to have appreciated these posts. I don't understand why you heap these martyr-like sentiments upon yourself (but, if they're unintentional, I apologize).

As a "stanuch dispensationalist" (boy, this term has quite a nice ring to it...I'm quite liking it!) with regard to spiritual gifts (SG), I am of the opinion that SG are not necessarily needed in the North American church to the degree that SG were needed in the early church. I will not hesitate to admit that the lack of SG in NA today could be the result of spiritual complacency (I conceded this point above in a message to Logic). But I will also allow that SG could greatly benefit the church in NA today. But I am not prepared to say that SG are necessary today in NA. Can I show this from scripture? Not with specific references, no. Can I show it from life? I believe I can. Let me ask you a question: If God deems that SG truly are necessary in the NAn church today, do you not think that He, in His absolute sovereignty, would in some way equip His children in NA with SG? Do you not think He would provide his church in NA with what He deems absolutely necessary? As things stand, SG are on the whole quite absent from our churches today. While it could be that this is our fault, it could also be that God, for whatever reason(s), according to His soverign will, has chosen to withhold, whether definitely or indefinitely, widespread outpourings of SG to his church in NA. To my knowledge there is no specific scripture to either support or disspell this view.

Consider this: To say that God's will is for SG to abound in the NAn church but that this is not so due to our own spiritual complacency is, in my opinion, to imply that man can frustrate the will of God and so threaten His abolute sovereignty. I'm not so sure that that can happen. Therefore I am inclined to think that the lack of SG in NA today is due to God wilfully withholding them (whether permanently or temporarily) for whatever reason.
Again, can I support this with a direct verse from the Bible? Probably not. Can you find one to refute it?

Yes, I am aware of wondrous stories of SG and miracles in places such as China. I do not doubt the validity of these at all. Praise God! And I do not doubt that these things happen in generally smaller quantities in NA. I simply think that the lack of such outpourings in NA suggests that these are not necessary for us (at least right now). I think if God felt it necessary that His church in NA be rich in SG, He would make that happen in some way.

One final question: Why is it that you accept a "harsh rebuke" from someone whom I presume you don't know (please correct me if that is wrong), but you are continually appear hostile to the criticisms, suggestions, etc. of those of us whom you do know?

Have a good day,

jedd

Logic said...

Jedd,

you have raised an excellent logical point. It is certainly logically possible that the reason SGs are not very active in NA is due to God; and it is also logically possible this shortage is due to something man has done.

However, I'm not certain that "spiritual complacency" such that the gifts are inactive in any way threatens the absolute sovereignty of God. Sovereignty only implies the potential to act. With regard to God it implies the potential to act within the confines of his own nature and prior commitments (satisfying his faithfulness). Since God instructs the church to earnestly desire Spiritual Gifts (1 Cor 14:1), I believe this applies to today.

I believe that the gifts are less active in NA due to a lack of teaching on how to properly receive and exercise the gifts.

For instance, the reason tongues/interpretation does not often occur in church meetings could be due to the structured format that most churches exhibit rather than the inability of God to provide the gifts of tongues/interpretation. Rather than leaving room for the operation of the gifts, meetings are often restrictive and formal, which leaves little to no room for active participation of the congregation. Furthermore, the congregation generally has little teaching on the 'how' and the 'why' of spiritual gifts, and, consequently, would not know how to behave if such space was left.

I think the gifts are a lot less mysterious than often portrayed; not that they are not miraculous (such as the gift of healing) but rather that they are often a source of discomfort since people can not well explain, or understand the gifts due to a shortage of education on the topic.

Anyway, this is a rather long digression.

My original point was that I think you overstate the case in saying that something man does, which has the consequence of limiting God's action, contradicts with God's absolute sovereignty. Remember, we're not giving an account of what God could or could not do, but rather seeking an explanation for why things are the way they are.

I certainly agree that if we said "God could not act due to man's complacency" that this would contradict God's absolute sovereignty. However, what we are suggesting here is that "God is not acting because of man's complacency". This does not threaten God's sovereignty. Take the instance of Jesus refusing to perform miracles due to the lack of faith. This did not limit God's sovereignty, only revealed God's unwillingness to perform miracles in a place with a lack of faith. I believe it is an issue of willingness and voluntariness of God rather than capacity of God to act.

One more thing about absoluteness of God; absoluteness does not mean God has no limits, rather that he can only act within limits he has established either by his nature or his will.

I hope this is helpful.

-Logic

Adam Wright said...

Logic,
Good post. This is something that I've been thinking a lot about lately. Certainly God will not act outside of his character, as you suggested. I do wish the answers were cut and dry. God's choosing to act and then not to act can be a mystery, in sense.

I think it is safe to say that God's primary purpose is to glorify himself. If he had some other thing to glorify, he would be come an idoltarer. This doesn't restrict God to a certain course of determinded action/response formulas, but rather God takes the utmost joy within himself.

In terms of Spiritual gifts, I'm no expert on the matter. The Spirit does give gifts as he pleases. This could suggest that it has more to do with God than it does with us, but you're right, Logic, in suggesting that God refused to heal certain individuals because of a lack of faith does suggest that a certain prerequisite must exist. This raises a dilemma!

In my studies, I have also learned that we must study the sociological atmosphere where gifts are prevalent. While this does not suggest that gifts only occur under these circumstances, a lot of spiritualism occurs amongst a group of people who are dissatisfied with strict religious dogma as suggested by an orthodox establishment. Spiritualists of the 16-17th centuries are a perfect example.

It is also interested to suggest that Arminianism rose out of a similar scenario. I heard an interesting quote: "When man frees himself from political absolutism, he also frees himself from spiritual absolutism". I realize the quote says "political absolutism", but this most likely addresses the mindset of those who live in a strict, disciplinarian atmosphere.

As mentioned, this does not suggest that all usages of spiritual gifts arise from a situation such as this, but it is interesting to note.

I guess from our perspective, with our limited knowledge, it is difficult to answer such questions. But gotta love the dialogue anyways!!

Pax

Adam Wright said...

I apologize for my awful spelling and gramatical errors. I wrote that rather quickly!

Logic said...

Adam,

I think you raise an excellent point about super-spiritualism. I think there are many 'movements' that would fall under this category. Hank Hanegraff has a book entitled "Counterfit Revival" where he goes through several revivals, mostly current, and is quite critical of them.

While I do not often agree with this approach because I feel it can sometimes foster attitudes of putting out the Spirits fire, or treating prophecy with contempt (which Paul urges us not to do in 1 Thessalonians 5:19-21). However, I certainly believe that some (not necessarily all the one Hank points out) revivals are based on false spiritualism.

Sociological influence and psychological dysfunction can both give reason for false spiritualism. However, this is not reason to reject all spirituality. Jack Deer writes in one of his books, "Surprised by the Power of the Spirit" I think, that if you open the window to let the Spirit in, often you will get bugs. Certainly he does not condone false spirituality, but he does recognize that by permitting certain spiritual expressions, sometimes some false things will occur (which is why we ought to test everything, 1 Thes. 5:21)

Thus, we need to avoid both extremes; the extreme to control everything, and the extreme of false spirituality.

I very much enjoy this discussion.

-Logic

Samuel Kennedy said...

So if I walked by a preacher on the street and didnt stop to listen it means I have no love of the truth? How so? Eli, you mention this in your audio. I would like you to explain further. I found your site through another sermon based one.

Im perplexed at this for many people who are downtown have a schedule to make and listening to a preacher speaking is not a priority to them. Jane mentiones you jump to conclusions, and while you do not answer her post, maybe it is something to think about. Perhaps these people, assuming they arent Christian for we have no way of knowing, do want to hear the truth but perhaps street preaching in your manner is not the best way. People want to spoken to, not preached at. There is a difference.

Jesus is a prime example. While he was able to preach at, especially with the Pharisees, when talking to those who did not know better, he talked to them. Read it, you'll see he was very gentle and knew how to talk to people. I dont know if youre old enough, Im just going by your picture, but university is a good place to learn this. Class room discussions, beyond first year babbles, is an important lesson for it enables one to learn how to talk with one another, something important for evangelism.

Anyway, Im curious again if you could explain what you mean by people not wanting to hear the gospel if they walk by. Maybe they have a meeting to go to, perhaps they are meeting their families, maybe they have a bible study to go to. Hearing you talk is not a priority. Maybe a switch in manner and method would solve your problem? I dont know, we can talk about it further if youd like. Dialogue amongst people such as us is important for we learn from each other instead of refusing advice. I know you know this, any good Christian does. I hope to hear from you.

God bless

Eli said...

Quote: "I certainly agree that if we said "God could not act due to man's complacency" that this would contradict God's absolute sovereignty. However, what we are suggesting here is that "God is not acting because of man's complacency". This does not threaten God's sovereignty."

Ah, well put Logic! Thanks for making that clearer than I put it.

Eli said...

Hi Samuel,

Brother, I realize that people have schedules and not everyone can stop. You have to be there to understand the situation. Many people continue by without showing any sign of interest at all, many people who are not up to anything at all. It's a general attitude of carelessness.

As for dialogue, I thought the audio portrayed how it goes from preaching to talking and back etc. Often times I spend the majority of time talking and a small portion preaching.

As for what Jesus did, I believe Jesus was as gentle and a Lamb but as fierce as a Lion. And I also believe it is a false assumption to think that Jesus was only tough on the Pharisees. There were occasions where Jesus was angry at entire cities!

Brother, street preaching is age old effort with a history of slander, violence and reproach, but also of great fruit and salvations. If it pleases God, He can use this humble attempt... if not, let it come to nothing.

God bless,
-Eli

Eli said...

Hey brother Jedd,

Sorry brother, I didn't mean to accuse you of being naive. I guess we agree on the present state of North America but disagree on why it is. I firmly believe it is on our part, and not a dispensation. I do not believe it is God's will for North America to be so incredibly luke-warm and worldly, which is as I see it the problem of our condition. Revelation reveals fascinating examples of churches, and this is for our warning and exhortation today... I believe God sees us as Laodecia.

If what you believe about spiritual gifts cannot be proven by Scripture, why hold to it? I believe that if we "humble ourselves and pray and seek His face and turn from our wicked ways, then God hear from heaven, will come and forgive our sins and heal our land."

I too am tired of counterfeit spirituality and false revival. I am sick of sign seekers... I am looking for a true and real revival where souls get saved and a Church gets well, not some temporary week long emotional craze. On this can we agree on?

God bless brother, love in Christ.
-Eli

Matt Sears said...

Eli,

Why is it that you always have to DEFEND yourself and re-affirm your position? Of course there will often be a need of such action, but isn't there also often a need of conceding that you could perhaps be wrong? What we see on this site far too often is a basic "point/counter-point" debate with you, where no minds are changed and no ground given. I think Jane had many excellent points, as well as Samuel. In the former case you simply dismissed her comments under the transparent guise of "accepting a rebuke," without actually addressing her challenge for humility. In the latter you present a point by point refutation of all of his comments which you care to address without pausing to question whether or not he may have had some valid things to say, while many specific challenges and criticisms simply go unanswered.

Despite what you may believe, I am not out to persecute you with ad hominem attacks. Rather, I am simply pleading with you to be open to changing your mind, or at the very least pausing to ponder at some of the comments, leaving open the possiblilty that some of them may be right, and that there may be some issues for which you do not have answers.

All of that being said, I must tell you, Eli, that I found your audio recording to be quite good. I can tell that you have a gift for talking to people, and there is no doubt in my mind that several of the people on the recording were actually listening to what you had to say and seeds may have indeed been planted. For that, be encouraged. Also, in the way of personal confession, the theological and scriptural discussions on this blog have caused my to delve more deeply into my Bible, both English and Greek, in a way that I haven't for quite some time. God is indeed working in several ways. Let's allow him the room to do so.

With sincere love in Christ, and with true encouragement,

Matt

Eli said...

Thanks Brother Matt for the encouragement and the word of advise. Maybe I am getting a bit too defensive. Rest assured, every comment that has been said has been weighed carefully, and God has judged my heart already, as he has all of us.

Again, thanks brother. Love in Christ,
-Eli

Logic said...

Matt,

You said:

"Despite what you may believe, I am not out to persecute you with ad hominem attacks."

Excellent point! I think that people often interpret my objections as 'ad hominem' as well.

Good post.

-Logic

Alarmingkate said...

Eli,

I am so confused about what you think you are accomplishing.

Have you ever seen anyone accept Christ as a result of your preaching?

k

Eli said...

Hi alarmingkate,

I typed up a response to your questions, then I erased it and wrote another... but I've now decided not to answer. I don't feel I need to justify myself to you.

K, I pray that your eyes would be opened to the truth of the Christ Jesus. He said "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me."

"He who has the Son has life. He who does not have the Son does not have life." (1 John 5:12)